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hifistan Offline
#21 Posted : 22 March 2012 15:18:48(UTC)
hifistan


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My project is still in the development stage but when a friend saw some ClarityCaps I had ordered to see if they would fit he decided to upgrade his B&W Matrix 3 speakers. He chose some higher grade ClarityCaps, paying about $20 each or $60 per speaker. He is extremely pleased with the results. My friend is much more of a music lover than an "audiophile"; he is one of those strange people who spend far more on CDs than equipment. I will try to get him to either post his experiences himself here or write them up so I can post them; he is not someone who usually likes debating the virtues of audio gear.
ashleym Offline
#22 Posted : 22 March 2012 15:47:42(UTC)
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I thought B&W used Mundorf caps? Or was that just for the new/posh speakers?

http://singaporehifi.blo...capacitor-shoot-out.html
hifistan Offline
#23 Posted : 22 March 2012 18:03:41(UTC)
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These are quite old speakers; from the 90s I would guess; they date from after the time I was a B&W dealer but that was in the 80s so there is quite a period there. I think they are contemporaries of my 805 Matrix which I bought used about 1992 but that is just an impression. I haven't seen the old caps but from the account I was given they were nothing special. I will try to get him to give a full description as soon as I can.
xjr100 Offline
#24 Posted : 24 March 2012 19:57:08(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: hifistan Go to Quoted Post
advice on that welcome too.

Just found some measurements of you speakers:
http://www.stereophile.c...loudspeaker-measurements

Some advices before you doing upgrade:
- first what you need to understand is WHY you want upgrade - you need know what you dislike in your speakes.
- second and last - is measurements: you need to get real picture, what is really weak in you speakers and what exactly the problem which you do not like.
- every capacitor have it's own character and own place in crossover: just replacing caps to "better specs/prices" could spoil overall sound (it depends on drivers, cabinet construction, crossover schematics)
- crossover schematics: before replacing you should understand what is each cap is doing.
- most of the improvemens you usually get with remodelling crossover (you need to repeat design process of the engineers who made your speaker - measure drivers in cabinet with microphone, put the data in CAD and design crossover.
- many, many, many listening tests, as if you replace one cap with another overall picture changes and probably to get most you need to rebuild crossover and listen agian and again until you will find right combination of values and types of components.
- take the speakers which sound really good and much better that yours and use them as "reference" for comaprison of changes. Compare them 1:1 to your at your location and your equipment.
- connectors to drivers/crossover: my personal preference - to solder it with a good solder.

About upgrading:
Add the picture and schematics of your crossovers - it will give more info and ideas for upgrade.





hifistan Offline
#25 Posted : 26 March 2012 00:43:20(UTC)
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The speakers my friend upgraded were B&W Matrix 3 series 2. He sent me this email about them:

I had the caps (3) in my crossover upgraded to Clarity Caps ESA series. The original caps in the crossover were Bennix electrolytics. Darrell [ our tech friend] measured them and found they were off spec by 15% The replacement caps were the same values as the original, only varying by .-th or so. The improvements were greater clarity, larger soundstage and blacker background. There doesn't appear to be any frequency anomalies at all. Imaging is still very good and the height of the soundstage is also greater.
Martin Colloms Offline
#26 Posted : 26 March 2012 16:29:16(UTC)
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Bennic electrolytics are better than average but have significant loss as all these electrolytics do , (ESR) which is accounted for in the crossover

you are likely to have changed the Q of the networks concerned , and if nothing else this will alter the timbre.

After a decade most are still close to their production characteristics.

As bi-polars with extra thick foil and subject to an easy duty cycle they can last very well and hold tolerance .

MartinC
hifistan Offline
#27 Posted : 26 March 2012 23:47:03(UTC)
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What about replacing the resistors in my S 100s with the 5 watt Mundorfs that received a good rating in the recent resistor test? Would that change the physical characteristics of the crossover as well?
Matt Offline
#28 Posted : 29 March 2012 09:24:23(UTC)
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Would using solid core wire on the woofer and multistrand on the tweeter improve the sound?

Solid core wire has lots of metal to carry the low frequencies and multistrand wire has lots of surface area to carry high frequencies.
hifistan Offline
#29 Posted : 29 March 2012 14:27:07(UTC)
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I did it the other way; Cardas multi strand on woofer [11.5 Ga.] and mid [13.5] and silver solid [23 Ga.] on tweeter. I like the multi strand better on the low end and usually in general but this is really a matter of taste and many like your approach better.
Martin Colloms Offline
#30 Posted : 31 March 2012 14:10:31(UTC)
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your result agrees with my experience

single strand , down to 0.6mm if applicable, for the treble

but multi , low resistance for the bass

Martin C
flyboy Offline
#31 Posted : 09 April 2012 07:49:11(UTC)
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I upgraded the capacitors (Solen poly to Dueland VSF) and resistors (Bennic? to Dueland) in my Coincident Super Eclipse III speakers. In my opinion this was a significant improvement and took the speakers from being very good to great. All aspects of sound quality improved with no downside. This exercise was simply a parts swap and no values were changed. I have upgraded capacitors/resistors/etc in electronics also but the improvements or changes were nowhere as effective as with the speaker crossovers. Although expensive, I am a huge fan of Dueland components and in my view are an excellent investment...I wish more manufacturers used Dueland parts!
hifistan Offline
#32 Posted : 09 April 2012 18:21:31(UTC)
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My friend the "mad modifier" also likes Dueland very much. However, due to his propensity to alter values I haven't been able to really appreciate to degree of improvement he is getting.
fas42 Offline
#33 Posted : 10 April 2012 11:34:03(UTC)
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One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of crossovers live in a very unpleasant environments: they being battered by vibration of the cabinet area where they're mounted, plus air pressure waves from the bass. The parts are being rattled to an inch of their lives at times, so it may be worthwhile trying to minimise this sort of bad exposure, by tying them down very tighly, or adding damping material to deaden vibration. It's highly likely to help, so it may worthwhile experimenting ...

Frank
hifistan Offline
#34 Posted : 10 April 2012 17:54:56(UTC)
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As an example of this two of the inductors in my S 100s had started to physically come apart; when my friend Darrel rewired them for me he epoxied them back together and added cable ties fastening them to the circuit board. Easy to do in this case as the board is easily removable. I just received word that my Mundorf 5 watt resistors had been shipped, I am going to install them before changing any caps.
darkmatter Offline
#35 Posted : 11 April 2012 22:31:47(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Martin Colloms Go to Quoted Post
your result agrees with my experience

single strand , down to 0.6mm if applicable, for the treble

but multi , low resistance for the bass

Martin C


Exactly the specs I used in my big speaker

Stan will look forward to reading about the results of your follo-up listening tests

Simon Smile
xjr100 Offline
#36 Posted : 12 April 2012 20:55:25(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: hifistan Go to Quoted Post
The original caps in the crossover were Bennix electrolytics. off spec by 15%

This is normal, as electrolytics have usually +-20% tolerance.
Many manufacturers use Bennic as OE supplier, but theis sound is not good. I've upgraded Magnat Quantum 709 - caps were all Bennic (electrolytics, MKT and MKP) replaced to standart Mundorf MCap 400V (3%) and it was really big improvement, as the speakers were flat enough with slight lower responce at 3...6KHz - that is what our ears like. But also upgraded Technics SB-M20, but after electrolytics were replaced the sound becabe unpleasant and dry: the reason was that speaker responce was not flat and electrolics were hiding it - with new caps highs were "higlited" while soundstage became better, but after some crossover changes (just simple attenuator to tweeter) it became much better than before upgrade.


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