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hifistan Offline
#1 Posted : 18 July 2012 04:58:24(UTC)
hifistan


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I had just about gotten my basement listening room the way I wanted it and am faced with the prospect of changing houses. Louisville,Ky , which I live across the Ohio river from, had 85 days above 90 degrees F in 2010; this Summer is even hotter. The tempeture here today was 97 F; the town I intend to move to had a temperature of 79 F. It is located in the Appalachian Mountains at an elevation of 900 M. While I would ideally like a house with plaster walls they are hard to find in this country in recent construction. I have had so much trouble in the past with suspended floors that I intend to look for a basement room again. I am torn between getting an unfinished basement so I could do it up to my requirements and finding one already finished to save the time and bother of finishing one. Also not sure of what wall material I would use; I am well aware of the deficiencies of dry wall construction. I know that there are several specialized products available but haven't worked with any. Have seen some with wood paneling but haven't seen the actual house so don't know what quality it is. What are the things members wound advise me to keep in mind as I look? I was temped to look at a log house but my wife hates them; I don't suppose they are common over there but I thought the wood walls and cathedral ceilings might be good for sound. My present basement room has 7' ceilings which I always thought was a serious deficiency. While I have lived at a similar elevation in the past it was during a period when I was not as involved with audio, what difference should I expect from listening close to sea level? I fondly remember living in some old apartment buildings with high ceilings and solid walls in my student days in Chicago but such things are not found where I am moving. All suggestions appreciated.
Martin Colloms Offline
#2 Posted : 20 July 2012 13:49:03(UTC)
Martin Colloms


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no quick answer but a recent exchange of notes with Yair Tamman did cover the issue of the diverse low frequency drive of different style US house and listening rooms.
In particular he indicated that regardless of cost you would need a Q5 to adequately thump bass for an open plan build while a compact Q1 will drive a 60 cubic metre NY concrete apartment nicely , to decent levels at 40Hz but sound weak in the bass in the larger lossy space.

A Wilson Audio MAXX Three thrives in big lossy spaces and can drive them well, and sound tight and fast. In a concrete box it needs careful placement and the 'Europe bass damping setting', to get low frequency control.

Martin Colloms
Cemil Offline
#3 Posted : 23 July 2012 13:35:36(UTC)
Cemil


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I live in a fake log house :) By this I mean that the outside walls are of concrete brick, clad with half logs on the outside. The ceiling and it's construction is as per a real log house, i.e. beams, timber and shingles on top. The floor is a concrete flooring, so quite solid, but with wood boards laid on it.

The main room (where the hifi is) has a 7+ meter cathedral ceiling, so quite a large space. Magnepans (MG 3.5) performed fantastically well in that space, then I tried various floorstanders which sounded completely lost in it. Surprisingly the Magico Mini 2 performed really well in there despite being a small speaker. I now have Q5s which, as Martin quotes Yair Tamman, have no problem whatsoever filling up the room and delivering bass that the Mini 2s could not hope to achieve.
bencat Offline
#4 Posted : 24 July 2012 13:35:46(UTC)
bencat


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I really do not know what to say . I have never been in the position of ever being able to consider the sound quality of a room as a factor in a house buy . In some ways I think you are very lucky but in others it would give me such a wide number of choices that I might well find ti hard to make any decision at all .

Having had a number of rooms both with suspended and solid floors if you can get one then a solid floor is better. However to my surprise the type of floor had less influence on the overall sound quality than the room height . In this area within certian limits the higher the ceilings the better . Currently I have 13 ft high ceilings which seems to be spot on and I would say anything less than 10ft is going to be less than ideal. The cathedral like vaults described above are just so out of my scope that I would not know were to start. However the fact they can be used with Panel speakers makes me green with envy as I have always wanted a pair but never had the room to do them justice .
System Theta Data Basic II Transport , Perpetual Technologies PA-1 Upsampler, PA-3 Dac , Concordant Exhillirant Pre ,Krell KSA50 Power , Harbeth Compact II Monitors .
kengale Offline
#5 Posted : 26 July 2012 11:16:23(UTC)
kengale


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Originally Posted by: hifistan Go to Quoted Post
I had just about gotten my basement listening room the way I wanted it and am faced with the prospect of changing houses. Louisville,Ky , which I live across the Ohio river from, had 85 days above 90 degrees F in 2010; this Summer is even hotter. The tempeture here today was 97 F; the town I intend to move to had a temperature of 79 F. It is located in the Appalachian Mountains at an elevation of 900 M. While I would ideally like a house with plaster walls they are hard to find in this country in recent construction. I have had so much trouble in the past with suspended floors that I intend to look for a basement room again. I am torn between getting an unfinished basement so I could do it up to my requirements and finding one already finished to save the time and bother of finishing one. Also not sure of what wall material I would use; I am well aware of the deficiencies of dry wall construction. I know that there are several specialized products available but haven't worked with any. Have seen some with wood paneling but haven't seen the actual house so don't know what quality it is. What are the things members wound advise me to keep in mind as I look? I was temped to look at a log house but my wife hates them; I don't suppose they are common over there but I thought the wood walls and cathedral ceilings might be good for sound. My present basement room has 7' ceilings which I always thought was a serious deficiency. While I have lived at a similar elevation in the past it was during a period when I was not as involved with audio, what difference should I expect from listening close to sea level? I fondly remember living in some old apartment buildings with high ceilings and solid walls in my student days in Chicago but such things are not found where I am moving. All suggestions appreciated.



Don't know the US market but certainly here in the UK there are available a variety of multi-level dry-wall coverings you can use of varying thickness - the thicker the better - specifically designed for their acoustic performance, mostly designed to meet inter-room transmission requirements for planning authorities. Good inter-room insulation is not necesarily linked directly to good absorbtion properties in the room itself, but is usually a pretty good guide. Similarly floor acoustic properties can be improved by using multi-level DIFFERENT THICKNESS chipboards with a visco-elastic glue between them. Traditional lath-and-plaster ceilings are much better damped than dry plaster-board linings.

I'm spoilt because the wall on my house are 2ft thick random built stone, with stone floors and reed-and-soft-plaster ceilings in between oak or elm beams, so is as acoustically dead at low frequencies as you could possibly want.

But the problems I've found with most domestic installations is higher up the frequency range, with far too much hard flat surfaces, often parallel with each other. Not helped by listeners who place speakers equidistant from end wall and listen right in the centre of the room against a flat wall facing the speakers, pretty well a recipe for standing wave problems. "Modern" style rooms, pretty minimalistic, often have acoustics that sound like a public toilet. We have a TV programme here in the UK called Grand Designs, where spectacular modernistic new builds or rebuilds are shown, and even on the TV's speakers the interviews with the proud owners are often highly acoustically coloured.

You can't beat lots of soft furnishing to clean up a room. Nice thick rugs or carpets, soft squishy sofas, bookshelves stuffed with books, hanging rugs, thick well-lined curtains. Decent remote control for the audio and/or video recording equipment so that it can be tucked out of the way rather than staring one in the face. Who wants to stare at a rack of electronic equipment when you could have a nice log fire (especially appropriate in the area it sounds like you are considering) and some decent pictures as the focal point?
Togil Offline
#6 Posted : 26 July 2012 12:54:19(UTC)
Togil


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Somewhere Martin claimed that books cause a certain coloration...
Hans
hifistan Offline
#7 Posted : 26 July 2012 23:56:46(UTC)
hifistan


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Making offer on home with basement room with concrete floor 14' x22' with 8' [I think] ceilings. Wood paneling on walls and ceiling with built in bookcases. I had alternatives that were larger but liked this room and house. Since most classic halls use wood I though it wouldn't be too bad. House built in 60s so wood is better quality than usual these days. Now I can contemplate moving records and gear 360 miles.[ also wife, dog etc] In the past I hired it loaded and unloaded and drove a rental truck myself. The joy of driving a 27' Diesel and seeing Artic [or semi as we say here] drivers eye to eye have to be experienced to be appreciated. Will report on sound quality when I finally get it set up; expect a considerable wait.

Ken, 3 wood-burning fireplaces including one in the listening room. I actually have a larger room but saving it for my table tennis table.

Edited by user 27 July 2012 00:01:47(UTC)  | Reason: add material

Martin Colloms Offline
#8 Posted : 07 August 2012 18:19:04(UTC)
Martin Colloms


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Quads are good in funny places without proper local wall boundaries

Peter Baxandall played his cathedral choral tapes to an audience of 200 plus
on 50W- plus 50W at the London IEE projecting the sound from an elevated lecture bench down a deep hall

I was near the back but still could hear a good deal of good sound, unforgettable............


Martin Colloms
hifistan Offline
#9 Posted : 25 August 2012 18:04:37(UTC)
hifistan


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Some good news on the new house; it was built in 1954 and has plaster over sheet rock walls. The home inspector I hired has been at it about 20 years and said he had never seen a house with as much wood in the framing as this one. So have high hopes for good sound quality but time will tell.
ashleym Offline
#10 Posted : 25 August 2012 20:41:55(UTC)
ashleym


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House for Stan

I had you down as this sort of man listening to some modern jazz!!!

Quote:
A conservative board and batten and stone facade, in keeping with its original agrarian surroundings, belies an open plan with futurist interiors designed for indoor-outdoor living, and an audiophile's entertaining.


My girlfriend is modernist property mad so we are kept abreast of the whole world's modernist houses.
hifistan Offline
#11 Posted : 25 August 2012 21:56:28(UTC)
hifistan


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Actually I listen to jazz more in my old age than I use to but folk and classical have always been my prime interests. Folk covers everything from Burl Ives to Richard Dyer-Bennet to Doc Watson and so on. Like Cardas, I have a mini Dax but while his appears enraptured with the music while sitting in his lap mine is usually looking for food crumbs on my shirt. My Linn is in the process of getting Khaned so CD only just now. I second Martins sentiments on the Metrum; it just makes music.
hifistan Offline
#12 Posted : 30 August 2012 02:41:04(UTC)
hifistan


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Packing up old HI FI magazines to give my friend Darrel; how the hobby has changed. Some HI FI News from the 60s; prices were a little lower then. Others from the 70s, 80s, 90s. Hi Fi Answers; seems like yesterday they were publishing. Keeping my old HI Fi Choices, the small ones. But a couple of boxes of later ones are going. Some "Gun" magazines from 1960, when they were devoted to small game hunters and target shooters, not assault rifles. "Astronomy" mags, a lot of "Scientific Americans", have to find a home for them. Throwing some "Car" and "Road and Track" in the Darrel pile; he is a British classic car man. What's this? Some vintage "Playboys"from the 70s. Keep them and put them on ebay. As opposed to HIFI News the equipment displayed in them hasn't changed much. The advantage real pack rats have over the human variety is that they seldom change house and don't have to drag their collection around after them. Some of these have logged 10 moves. I don't trade older gear like I use to and can remember enough to get by. I already loaned Darrel some British "Audio Yearbooks" from the 60s; some familiar names but many others at best half remembered and others who never made it to these shores. I'll let him keep them; the most unlikely things turn up for him to repair. I think I am reaching the age of enlightenment or possibly senility; when a friend ask me what system I would want if given unlimited funds I could not think of anything I had a desperate desire for. I have a considerable but not insane amount of money tied up in gear but I an not sure spending 10x or 100x as much would make me ecstatic at the difference. I still like the Spendors; Dave is going to try out a surplus pair of SP-1s as a change of pace from the Sasha. Both musically enjoyable in quite different ways. Moving is like looking at your life in the rear view mirror; the things you have picked up remind you of what was and what could have been. Some memories pleasant , some not so much. Packing takes longer than it use to. It is a well known physical law that time slows down with increasing speed. In my case speed seems to be slowing down with increasing time . Who said physics couldn't be funny? Don't all yell at once.
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