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alexh Offline
#1 Posted : 08 May 2012 19:20:11(UTC)
alexh


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As the title says, are you at a point where you can sit back and enjoy your hard work and how long did it take to get there ?

In my case it has taken about 35 years. Part of that time I believe was wasted partly because I was not sure what I was looking for in a system.

Now I know what I want, I have been able to put together a satisfying system using self built and bought in kit.

The biggest problem is finding quality recordings .....
Alex H
ashleym Offline
#2 Posted : 08 May 2012 19:39:19(UTC)
ashleym


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Same result but the opposite route.

I was delighted with my first system fresh from Comet bought in parts and allied with a hand me down. I can still remember playing my first few "adult" records. The sound was fantastic to me; Amstrad, Goldring and Solavox. I got this over 30 years ago.

I have always been happy with my systems, I am amazed that people end up spending money going up/down the wrong path. Only because I have been happy with my upgrades and happy with my dealer. Why did you end up taking the wrong path and where was your dealer in your hour of need??? (do I sound like a Martial arts instructor?)

My concern is finding music and the recording is as it is. I wouldnt turn down music because of the recording quality. I am beyond being too fussy on releases. I will put up with a new pressing of an older recording with a barcode on the sleeve etc. I like a band to have a certain something but buying a lot of unknowns I have to not worry about that some much!!
hifistan Offline
#3 Posted : 11 May 2012 04:53:20(UTC)
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I have always enjoyed mine; also enjoy fooling around with different gear. I was fortunate to start when the top gear was not that high. Within 3 years I had progressed to a system that would not sound bad today. Quad 57s, Dynaco Stereo 35 and PAS 2, AR table, Fisher and Scott tuners. Living in Chicago I was able to listen to WFMT; the best FM station in the world. While I have dallied with other speakers from time to time Quad and then Spendor [from 1972] have been the greatest influence on my listening taste. I actually enjoy listening more now than I did years ago; I use to read while listening but now get too involved with the music most of the time. I can hear detailed now that I never did in my youth despite the inevitable loss of some hearing frequency range.
paskinn Offline
#4 Posted : 11 May 2012 08:51:58(UTC)
paskinn


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Over the years I have come to suspect that enjoying your system has more to with particular moods than the objective performance of your equipment..most of which is probably quite good (because the people on this forum are likely to chose with care.)
So now I just accept that some days my system/records sound 'better' than on other days. I don't suspect bad mains or whatever, just what mood I am in.
So why do we still worry about buying or making the best equipment?...because continueing to strive is part of the point. It really is a journey, not a destination.
hifi addict Offline
#5 Posted : 11 May 2012 11:18:29(UTC)
hifi addict


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Ambient noise plays a factor in the enjoyment of systems. Later at night with lest external noise and less mains noise makes a big difference. I wouldn't necessarily put it down to mood as there are times when I have had a headache or tired or the kids have played up and I can still appreciate a good sound whether I'm in the mood to listen or not.
Martin Colloms Offline
#6 Posted : 14 May 2012 14:45:35(UTC)
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better at night yes, but with a £175K cd player the sound has been rather good of late

even with noisier mains..........

MartinC
alexh Offline
#7 Posted : 14 May 2012 17:37:29(UTC)
alexh


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One of the best things that I have done with my system is a very well designed balanced transformer.

I am lucky that I know someone who makes them for the pro recording industry, so he knows the ins and outs of transformers.

I have a dual transformer, one 2Kva one for the ATC`s and a 1Kva for the source.

Also being able to design and wind the toroids, I have " Overwound" secondary windings that lowers the output impedance which gets rid of the problem of lack of dynamics.

I did try with a well known fairly cheap company to go balanced but it did squash the life out of the music, so you do get what you pay for.

Being into the DIY route, I have noticed that I can now fit the filtered IEC line sockets to my Dac and CD player for a better sound again.

One thing I do find is that the transformers will buzz during peak times from 5-00 pm until 9-30 pm but not enough to spoil anything. In fact I can now listen any time I want which is a big plus for me.

Another thing to do with the mains supply is to fit the MK RFI and Spike filter sockets around the house where the switch mode PS wall warts are plugged in. They stop most of the generated HF crap that comes out of the devices.

The cost was about £1300 but has given me a large upgrade that now allows me to enjoy music as it is supposed to sound BigGrin
Alex H
hifi addict Offline
#8 Posted : 14 May 2012 18:41:19(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Martin Colloms Go to Quoted Post
better at night yes, but with a £175K cd player the sound has been rather good of late

even with noisier mains..........

MartinC



Show offDrool
Pete_w Offline
#9 Posted : 15 May 2012 20:24:11(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Martin Colloms Go to Quoted Post
better at night yes, but with a £175K cd player the sound has been rather good of late

even with noisier mains..........

MartinC


We won't believe you unless you invite us all round for a listen BigGrin
ken c Offline
#10 Posted : 15 May 2012 20:49:12(UTC)
ken c


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immensely, especially vinyl...

enjoy
ken
HansW Offline
#11 Posted : 15 May 2012 21:45:35(UTC)
HansW


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Originally Posted by: Martin Colloms Go to Quoted Post
better at night yes, but with a £175K cd player the sound has been rather good of late

even with noisier mains..........

MartinC


So what CD player is it?


Hans
hifistan Offline
#12 Posted : 16 May 2012 01:53:01(UTC)
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" I could tell you but then I would have to kill you"; old spy movie line.
Pete_w Offline
#13 Posted : 16 May 2012 08:03:58(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: alexh Go to Quoted Post
are you at a point where you can sit back and enjoy your hard work and how long did it take to get there ?


Yes I am. I think I've always (well, mostly) had something that I've enjoyed at the time, though - taking into account the points made in the other threads about listener training - I'm fairly sure that if I went back now to listen to some of the things I've had in the past, I probably wouldn't be able to enjoy them so much as I did then. If you see what I mean...

I've taken a few wrong turnings, generally when I've bought stuff secondhand, without dealer support. The things I've bought from dealers have generally been OK. There's a lesson there :-). CD players, for example - I've only ever had 2 serious ones since the student Rotel because the first serious one that I bought - a Pink Triangle Cardinal / DaCapo pairing - was so damn musical that I kept it til it died, a good investment. The only slightly iffy choice from a dealer was an AT OC5 cartridge. I was seduced by the Moving Coil sound, but it turned out that I couldn't live long-term with the brightness, at least in the Ittok that I had at the time.

The biggest non-leap-forward was a secondhand Naim 62/140 combo. I bought it 'cos at the time I was reading the flat-earth brainwash press (Hifi Review - Chris thingummy, Malcolm Steward, et al) and it was The Thing To Have, and I was young and wasn't confident enough to trust my ears rather than journalists. Even at the time, I didn't think it was a step forward from the Creek 4140s2 that I had previously. Hey ho. It did me a favour in one way, though; it got me into DIY because I started thinking "what's wrong with this thing, how can I make it better?" and got talking to like-minded people on t'interweb... I still have the pair in the roof as an unsaleable pile of junk, gutted and modded beyond all recognition (and, frankly, beyond all safety).

I also blame the flat-earth press for prejudicing me against American electrostatic hybrid speakers. All the crap about how they can't play in tune or in time and how only British hifi can play tunes, so I never even considered them or bothered listening. When I finally got my Martin Logans, years later, it was like coming home... Turns out, I suspect, that they probably can't play tunes on the end of a typical British amp of the period because it hasn't got the clout to drive them...
Martin Colloms Offline
#14 Posted : 18 May 2012 11:23:17(UTC)
Martin Colloms


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I won't try try to answer Peter's many points, and they need answering sometime

but will note the ongoing reviewing experience which is littered with experiences with better product, and having the will to return to your own stuff and get on with it and listen to the music.

The monster CD payer has left the premises and I am settling down afresh. And yes , its good , but not as good !

MartinC
Pete_w Offline
#15 Posted : 18 May 2012 13:43:06(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Martin Colloms Go to Quoted Post
I won't try try to answer Peter's many points, and they need answering sometime


I wasn't having a go at anyone, Martin, I hope it didn't come across that way. Well, only at myself, for lacking the confidence in my own ears and judgement. I think that one has to make these mistakes in order to learn. The 62/140 was a big disappointment, quite possibly because I'd been oversold it by the press, or oversold it to myself, and then when it arrived (second hand), in the system I had at the time, it wasn't a particular step forward from the Creek. I suspect that I hadn't appreciated how musical the Creek actually was (in a not-too-large room with ES11s, it wouldn't have been working too hard), and I simply had upgrade-itis. The big learning experience for me there was to listen for a decent period before buying, even if it costs me more, and then to trust my own ears. All the stuff that dealers should do, if you're buying new.

As for my comments about the flat-earth press, I'll stand by those. You weren't writing for HFR, as far as I recall, it was Chris Frankland, Malcolm Steward, Noel Keywood and Ian Rankin, wasn't it? The world outside Britain - to some extent outside Glasgow and Salisbury - didn't seem to exist in the editorial policy of the magazine. Reviews, basically, all read "Hmm, not bad, but not as good as the Naim". I'd tried occasionally reading HFN, but (I was much younger then) it seemed so damned boring, with endless reviews of yet more classical music, and some bloke scoring things on his "usual subjective scale" without ever explaining what that was BigGrin. I think I finally got my head round HFN - and your scoring system - when I went through a phase at work where I was commuting to Helsinki every other week, so I started buying HFN regularly on the airport bookstands and reading it on the planes...



hifistan Offline
#16 Posted : 18 May 2012 18:54:42(UTC)
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I read a lot of Ian Rankin but in the mystery line; same guy or just same name? Sorry that he retired Rebus without resolving the question of whether he and his female partner would ever get together. Right now the main thing standing between myself and full enjoyment is that I have WAY TOO MUCH STUFF. I expect I will always feel the urge occasionally to see what that other speaker/amp/etc sounds like but just way too much on hand. For instance I have been attempting to get a pair of Nelson-Reed 1204 subs up to speed for better than 2 years now. Aha you say, that guy is so slow he watches turtle races for excitement. Its this way; I was a dealer for them at the time they went out of business around 1990; these were in storage during my 12 year sabbatical from the hobby. When I set them up they still sounded impressive for the very short time they played before surround rot revealed itself. A long hiatus for new surrounds followed, aggravated by non audio delays. When I got around to them recently I found I had considerable noise on one channel of the active crossover; my tech friend diagnosed a bad IC. I have another active crossover but Darrel offered to let me try his custom tube design one. The one positive result so far is that I have confirmed to my own satisfaction that I still can hear the insertion of a crossover in the signal chain [ non peer reviewed conclusion] despite it being of high quality. So far I have been totally unable to get the kind of bass from the 8 12" Volt [supposedly] woofers that I get from my 2 REL Stadium [Stadui ?] subs. Circumstances led me to use a different speaker wire this time; one allegedly by siltech I bought on ebay. Could there be anything to the rumors that wire does make a difference? Is this a counterfeit wire [not unknown over here]? Do tubes just not produce the bass of SS? All will be resolved in time, God willing and the creek don't rise as we say in the colonies. So all of you out there who wish you had a room [literally 2 rooms in my case] of extra gear rejoice. The more junk you have the more time you spend not listening. This is a necessary burden for reviewers but not for music lovers. Why do I do it? I just like finding out what different things sound like. I actually became a dealer just for this purpose; with the costs as they are now it is much easier to buy and sell used gear. Fooling around with a lot of gear has its moments but it is a hell of a lot of work; problems will come up that logically cannot exist but THERE THEY ARE!.

Edited by user 18 May 2012 18:57:39(UTC)  | Reason: typo

Pete_w Offline
#17 Posted : 18 May 2012 20:56:04(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: hifistan Go to Quoted Post
I read a lot of Ian Rankin but in the mystery line; same guy or just same name? Sorry that he retired Rebus without resolving the question of whether he and his female partner would ever get together.


Same Ian Rankin. I think that Siobhan had too much sense, Rebus wouldn't have been good for her.... :-)

hifistan Offline
#18 Posted : 19 May 2012 03:36:08(UTC)
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When did women ever go for the guys who were good for them? Men for the women either? This is usually double blind testing at its best.LOL

"If any of you are readers of Terry Pratchett" Yes; everything but some of the more obscure children's books. Has anyone else read THE NAME OF THE WIND and WISE MAN'S FEAR? I am not going to attempt to spell the authors last name. A whole different take on magic school from Hogwarts; a well thought out alternate universe both like and unlike ours. Reminds me faintly of Fletcher Pratt and L. S. DeCamp's [misspelled] work if anyone else is old enough to remember them. But greatly expanded and far more complex and gritty. Worth a look if you read any kind of fantasy and possibly even if you haven't yet.
Ecosse64 Offline
#19 Posted : 19 May 2012 10:40:51(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pete_w Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Martin Colloms Go to Quoted Post
I won't try try to answer Peter's many points, and they need answering sometime


I wasn't having a go at anyone, Martin, I hope it didn't come across that way. Well, only at myself, for lacking the confidence in my own ears and judgement. I think that one has to make these mistakes in order to learn. The 62/140 was a big disappointment, quite possibly because I'd been oversold it by the press, or oversold it to myself, and then when it arrived (second hand), in the system I had at the time, it wasn't a particular step forward from the Creek. I suspect that I hadn't appreciated how musical the Creek actually was (in a not-too-large room with ES11s, it wouldn't have been working too hard), and I simply had upgrade-itis. The big learning experience for me there was to listen for a decent period before buying, even if it costs me more, and then to trust my own ears. All the stuff that dealers should do, if you're buying new.

As for my comments about the flat-earth press, I'll stand by those. You weren't writing for HFR, as far as I recall, it was Chris Frankland, Malcolm Steward, Noel Keywood and Ian Rankin, wasn't it? The world outside Britain - to some extent outside Glasgow and Salisbury - didn't seem to exist in the editorial policy of the magazine. Reviews, basically, all read "Hmm, not bad, but not as good as the Naim". I'd tried occasionally reading HFN, but (I was much younger then) it seemed so damned boring, with endless reviews of yet more classical music, and some bloke scoring things on his "usual subjective scale" without ever explaining what that was BigGrin. I think I finally got my head round HFN - and your scoring system - when I went through a phase at work where I was commuting to Helsinki every other week, so I started buying HFN regularly on the airport bookstands and reading it on the planes...






You do seem to have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about the 'Flat Earth Press' – All they did was express their opinions - why would they recommend something that they didn’t like, or not recommend something that they did like? As you admit, if you bought on their, or anyone else’s recommendation, and weren't happy with the end result, then that is your fault.

FWIW, I still think HFR was the best Hi-Fi magazine that ever was (sorry Martin) – So am I brainwashed? I'm sure some will claim so, but no; when I started out, I simply listened to lots of equipment, most of which did nothing for me; the few that did, happened to be the kind of equipment recommended by HFR, and often slagged off by their competitors – the point being, that I came to MY conclusion by listening for myself, then came to the conclusion that HFR, and its reviewers, were the closest to hearing things as I do.

FWIW, I think that the 62/140 was, and still is, excellent – sure, like all classic Naim, it's not for Hi-Fi Freaks, but for music lovers, there is little, if anything, to better it (classic Naim in general), IMO.

Even MC is on record as having said that he had to be 'taught rhythm', and only then did he fully understand what made e.g. the LP12 and Naim amplification so satisfying in musical terms – it seems that a lot of people, and certainly most reviewers, then and now, still don't get it, IMO.

The most important point, however, is that whatever anyone ends up with, they have done so because it's what THEY like, not what someone else has recommended, whether they are 'experts', or not.

BTW, Martin, any chance you could persuade Chris Frankland to come out of retirement, perhaps to do a 'Flat Earth' section in HFC? Wink

Edited by user 19 May 2012 10:48:17(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

doomlord_uk User is suspended until 22/04/4750 08:53:41(UTC)
#20 Posted : 23 May 2012 14:31:29(UTC)
doomlord_uk


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Generally speaking, I always enjoy my music, or I wouldn't play it :) Likewise I have always enjoyed the hifi equipment I've owned, even if I've always wanted bigger and better and more stuff. The only obvious disapointment that I bought was a cheap Paradigm PDR-10 subwoofer which plainly was not as good as I had hoped (it was part of a complete system I bought cheaply off eBay though, so no complaints, especially after I sold it all on for a profit :) )

I must confess that I don't really buy into the 'hifi as a journey' thing. it generally takes me as long to enjoy my hifi as it does to cross the room and switch it on, or dig up a particular CD I want to listen to.

Quote:
All they did was express their opinions

Hifi reviewers do more than just 'express their opinions' - as if HFN etc were just gossip rags or something. Reviewers know very well that what they write will affect how people spend their money, there are real-world consequences therefore. It's not just 'opinion' - it's meant to be informed and verifiable opinion. Certainly that is how it has always been marketed and is what we should reasonably expect.

Quote:
if you bought on their, or anyone else’s recommendation, and weren't happy with the end result, then that is your fault.

Really only true if you think reviewer's opinions are not worth anything in the first place. There is a strong, and heavily marketed, element of trust involved in review publishing and with good reason. I don't think you can transfer responsibility wholly onto the shoulders of the consumer in that regard. But if it should lie squarely with consumers, what then is the value of publishing reviews anyway?
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